Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Golden Touch Dice Control Revolution!: Win at Craps Using a Controlled Throw by Dominator and Frank Scoblete (2005, Perfect) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products! If you throw the dice 42 times and roll seven 7's, you have a Sevens to Rolls Ratio of 6 (42/7 = 6). If, however, you have one non-random roll and throw seven 7s in 43 rolls, you have an SRR of 6.14. This is enough to negate the house edge on the 6 and 8 place bets. Just one controlled throw out of every 43 rolls of the dice would eliminate the. Sharpshooter and I have since gone on to form a successful partnership to continue our research and to organize and manage craps teams. Much of our work is taught in a comprehensive dice control course. Our dice control methodology is introduced in a book we co-authored called Casino Gambling. So what you are reading here is not just fuzzy. Using you right hand (or left), place the dice next to each other. Using your middle finger and thumb, grab the dice at the center where the two dice meet. The dice should be flat on the table at this point, and the grip should look like the 2 Fingered Front and Back grip on Irishsetter's page.

I started the 'questions' thread so Frank could respond directly to questions and if we were satisfied with his answers we could just digest them and not clog up the thread with responses.
I started this thread for responses. I do not need to respond to my first questions to Frank because I just wanted his opinion. He gave, and thank you.
I do want to respond to this:

Hi Alan:
I know there is a debate about the words 'dice influencing,' 'dice control,' 'rhythmic rolling,' 'rhythm rolling' but I just consider all of them synonyms. I prefer using the term 'dice control' because it sounds more powerful than the other three but, again, I just think of these words as synonyms.

Frank, I honestly think that's a problem for the purposes of your discussion. I think you will find there are many who believe in dice 'influencing' but not dice 'control.' I think many people separate the two -- influencing meaning have some effect, and dice control meaning some exact result. When I hear someone claim dice 'control' I say impossible. When someone claims 'dice influencing' I listen up to the possibility.
I know you have always used the term 'dice control' but had I known then that you might really mean just 'dice influencing' then I would have given you more attention to what you were saying. Now, I admit, I have to rethink my past thoughts about what you wrote. And now I have to wonder were you talking about actual 'control' or just 'influencing'? You might not appreciate the difference, but I do and I think a lot of others would say 'influencing is possible but control is not.'

Shooters try for greater and greater levels of on-axis performance because then other things are possible with dice control but a shooter who just has average axis control (and using the Hardway set) is still a controlled shooter if the SRR shows he is. His casino play, given some time, should start to reflect that too but I know controlled shooters can go through awful stretches --- I certainly have.
I also believe that controlled shooting is not controlled for every shot. Sometimes the dice leave your hands and you know the shot is random --- you just pray like all the other gamblers at that moment. Sometimes the shot hits chips that probably randomizes the throw; and at almost all times the back wall reduces the control of the shot. So as rolls become longer there are plenty of times when you actually do need a little help from Lady Luck. I've never hid this fact in my writing but somehow it gets lost in the shuffle.

These two paragraphs above illustrate the problem for using both 'influencing' and 'control' interchangeably. I can't accept someone who has 'control' to lose. But I can understand someone who just has 'influence' also needing some luck to accomplish his goal.
I also can't accept that some 'controlled shots' are controlled shots when the shooter slips up. Look, if a shooter tries a controlled shot and the dice slip or he hiccups when the dice are released and the throw is bad, then simply the throw was bad. There is no such thing as a controlled shot that doesn't work.
If the shot doesn't work, it wasn't a controlled shot. When a ball player hits a line drive it means it's not a grounder. We need some clear definition of terms to continue the discussion.
In all practicality, we all influence the dice to some degree. A slow, soft throw that takes a soft bounce to the back wall affords more opportunity for influencing than a hard throw that bounces all over the place even using the hardways set. I can't imagine that a 'set' such as the 'hardway set' by itself qualifies any shot for being an influenced shot or a controlled shot.

Sharpshooter Dice Control Proper Grips Set

Even Sharpshooter set parameters for an influenced shot. So I can't imagine any shot to be EFFECTIVELY INFLUENCED unless all of the conditions set by Sharpshooter are followed which include:
proper set and grip
soft throw with dice close together and on axis to the end of the come box at a 45-degree angle
soft roll to the back wall
dice softly touching or bouncing off the back wall
What Sharpshooter wrote about -- the same strategy that Patterson and Heavy and others discussed years ago, to me is what makes dice influencing possible. No one ever used the word 'control' until you did, and those that heard the word 'control' considered it to be predicting the exact result of the dice as in a hop bet.
To sum up my feeling about the use and possibility of dice influencing and dice control, please consider this analogy:
I think it is possible to influence dice. I think it's impossible to control dice.
I think it is possible for a major leage pitcher to throw a fast ball into the strike zone on each and every pitch. I think it's impossible for a pitcher to throw a fast ball into the strike zone at 96.33 miles per hour on each every pitch.
Thanks for your responses and the time you spend here. If others have not told you allow me to say it is very much appreciated. And when you want to do an Infomercial call me, I'll give you a discount because I like the subject! LOL

Craps Dice Control Dvd

My respect for you has grown even more in the past week that you were on here, your patience
with the questions about dice control after all these years is amazing, i guess that is why your
instructors also have that.
dicesitter

I have been really impressed with the quality and detail
of Frank's posts. I set out to be a detractor, but he easily
won me over. I'm so embarrassed...Frank, I for one wish you'd get back to posting about
gambling, your field of expertise. Whats with all these
other topics, vomiting, super hero's, abortion, wishing
you weren't born? I don't get it.

Dice Control: Calculating the Player Advantage

by Jerry Patterson

A young engineer who called himself 'Sharpshooter' came to my attention in one of my blackjack update seminars. He had been doing research on dice control for a number of years and explained it thusly:

'If you could simply set the dice on the desired result without having to throw them, you have controlled the dice 100%. If you could set the dice and just slide them a few feet carefully down a teflon surface, you would have the desired result, maybe 90% of the time. Now envision the dice being lightly tossed through the air into a sandbox. As they land, they sink into the sand slightly and do not bounce. Under these circumstances, the dice can be controlled about 70% of the time.'

We both agreed that in the real world of casino play, you must take into account the table surface that the dice must bounce and tumble over and the back wall with its diamond-like protrusions the casino requires you to hit.

So gaining an advantage is no slam dunk, but, by learning how to set the dice, to grip the dice and to throw the dice, and then by repetitive practice, you can attain a measurable and substantial advantage over the house.

Sharpshooter and I have since gone on to form a successful partnership to continue our research and to organize and manage craps teams. Much of our work is taught in a comprehensive dice control course. Our dice control methodology is introduced in a book we co-authored called Casino Gambling. So what you are reading here is not just fuzzy theory; it has been time-tested under the fire of casino play for over five years.

Before we get to calculating the edge a skilled shooter gain over the casino, let's review the basics of dice control. First, you need a consistent delivery system. You can compare a controlled throw to playing just about any sport. Much like the basketball player working on his three-point shot or the golfer working on his swing, the 'rhythm roller' practices his or her dice sets, develops a carefully balanced grip and executes the controlled throw with a soft release.

After you release the dice at about a 45-degree angle, ideally they should travel side-by-side and go through identical motions; they should land together, hitting the table flat, with minimal bounce, just grazing the rubber pyramidal backing and quickly coming to rest.

For the skilled rhythm roller, it looks as though only one die was thrown along the length of a mirror, and the second die is just its reflection. The key is to get the dice going through the same motion. You are developing and using your 'muscle memory' to achieve the consistency needed to overcome the house edge.

Sharpshooter's formula for calculating the advantage of a skilled rhythm roller is as follows: Player Advantage (%) = (Actual Payoff – Correct Payoff) times Probability of Outcome times 100 percent

Now let's plug in some numbers to compute the Player Advantage for the 6 and 8 place bets assuming the skilled player throws 6 sevens every 48 rolls instead of the 8 sevens which is random:

(7/6 – 6/7) times 7/13 times 100% = 16.67% where 7/6 is the actual casino payoff for the 6 and 8 place bets, 6/7 is the correct payoff and 7/13 is the probability of outcome or frequency of occurrence.

To understand the above calculation, you need to look at a new frequency distribution of 48 rolls instead of the standard 36. In this 48-roll sample, we are assuming that the skilled rhythm roller only throws the 7 six times (instead of the random eight times), while the 6 and 8 are each thrown seven times. Therefore, the 'correct' house payoff for this altered game should only be $6 for each $7 bet instead of $7 for each $6 bet. This is because the player now holds the advantage, not the casino. The Probability of Outcome of either the 6 or the 8 is 7/13; i.e. throwing the 6 or the 8 before the losing seven shows. To understand the 7/13, note that you have seven chances of throwing the 6 and 8 in 48 rolls but only six chances of throwing the 7 in 48 rolls; thus the probability of outcome is 7 divided by 7+6 or 7/13.

So there you have it. Can you achieve this 1:8 sevens-to-rolls ratio (6:48 = 1:8)? It all depends on your commitment and motivation to practice. But it can be done and many of my and Sharpshooter's students will attest to this fact. If this 16.67% player advantage is too hard for you to believe, remember that an advantage can be achieved by surpassing the break-even sevens-to-rolls ratio of 1 to 6.14. You could shoot for an SRR of 1:7 and command an advantage of about 9%!

Learning how to set the dice, which I discussed in my last article, is just the first step in becoming a skilled rhythm roller. The other two key factors are the grip and the throw itself. I use a 'pincer' grip with my pinky finger and forefinger acting as pincers, one on each end of the dice with my two middle fingers resting gently on top. You need to experiment to find the grip you're most comfortable with. As for the throw, there are many different styles starting with overhand versus underhand. Choosing your own throwing style leads to another key decision – table position: Where is the best spot to throw from: Table end? Hook? Next to stick? These factors and decisions are all part of your learning process. I'll discuss them in my next article. In the meantime, practice your controlled throw at home on the kitchen table or in the bedroom by throwing into an open dresser drawer. And look for other rhythm rollers on your next trip to the casino.

Editor's Note: For more on dice control, pick up a copy of Jerry Patterson's book – Casino Gambling: A Winner's Guide to Blackjack, Craps, Roulette, Baccarat and Casino Poker